Is There a Kernel of Truth?

I find it interesting how these people know so much about me based on a four-minute television interview. I've never heard of their blog, but I'm guessing it is in the same vein as Ingrid's site.

When it comes to someone pointing their finger at me, it's my practice to look to see if there is a "kernel of truth." Let the false stuff go, and just see if there is something I should learn from the accusations.

So help me out here...anything I should be learning?

Comments

[Cole]

Unfortunately there's not really anything you can learn from these watchdogs. They are literally on a witch hunt, just looking for anyone they can find to "expose." The sad thing is, they miss the Gospel and the grace of Jesus along the way.

Tim, God is using you to lead 1000s of people into a relationship with Jesus Christ, not only at Granger, but now, even more than ever, around the country. Thanks for your commitment to reaching people "by any means necessary." (1 Cor. 9:19-23)

[Steve Miller]

One respondent suggested they were rushing to judgement with insufficient information. He was roundly ignored or chastised by the pious. Clever people that they are, they quickly found another video (Grease) from GCC and joyously pointed out lyrics promoting premarital sex.

I quit looking at Ingrid's blog a long time ago. It always seems to be the same circle of people that applaud the virtue of traditional methodology and scream loudly at anyone who dares to be different.

I have tried on two occasions to open a dialogue for honest discussion on blogs like that and walked away defeated. Open talk and rational discourse just doesn't seem possible.

On the other hand - GCC has taught me that everyone matters to God. I see Jesus in the Gospels rebuking the religious leaders, but I also see him taking the time to speak with any of them that will listen. I think He loved the religious crowd every bit as much as the prostitutes, thieves and cheats. It's just the second crowd that truly accepted his love.

Kernel of truth? I couldn't find it. But I have a hard time looking for it amidst so much judgement and condemnation.

[jeremy]

Tim,
This is another example of when something is ordained by God it will be persecuted. There will be attacks from satan. There will be naysayers. Be encouraged that obviously after reading this book, it is anointed, it is a timely message that needs to be shouted from the highest mountain. Yes a majority of churches today are irrelevant. The way we do church has to change. The Gospel stays the same, but the approach and our tactics have to change. I think PGTC is one of the best books I have ever read. I can't wait for the sequel. These people are extremists and they should worry about their own ministry, instead of feasting on others. Keep up the good work. Keep creating, innovating and being obedient to Christ.

[Ernie Stevenson]

Apparently you should have shown no respect to the interviewer and started into a fire and brimstone message to tell everyone that they are going to hell if they don't change there ways right now and accept Jesus.
Oh, and don't ever mention how many lives are being changed like the book of Acts does.

[Don]

Tim,
I watched the interview and read their post and comments. If there is a kernel of truth, it's hidden underneath the layers of sarcasm and quick-wit that we all tend to pose when we are defending something we are passionate about. I typed a comment, then deleted, then typed again, then deleted. Finally, I decided to turn to your post.

I have actually spoken SOME of those sentiments myself in the past. And it was because I was so disappointed and disillusioned because I drempt of ministry like I see at GCC, but had given up on it as even possible. My criticism was based on my pain. Not to say theirs is. We do run a risky course. It would be easy to become shallow.

But within weeks of my first visit I was drawn to the depth at GCC. I came here to grow. I have seen GCC from the auditorium seats over a period of almost a year and I've been challenged to repent, to keep Jesus first and foremost, to get myself off my mind, I could go on. I am saddened that someone would criticize someone else I love and respect without really looking past a 4 minute interview.

When sarcasm and quick judgement are the principle response, I wonder what is in the heart. So I look inside my own and I let God deal with others.

Sorry this comment is so long... I CAN'T CONTAIN MYSELF!!!

[Bart Blair]

Tim, you're too cool for prime time! The interview was great. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of the book! I consider it an honor to be serving the same King as guys like you. -bart

[Brian]

WOW! Its sad to see so much sideways energy devoted to things like this. Sometimes it seems like there are "Christians" who just sit around monitoring the blogosphere, TV, and magazines looking for people to attack... Sadly I even met one guy who told me it was his ministry to expose "false teachers"

Last week I received a scathing email accusing me of being a "newager" and lacking discernment because I mentioned Rick Warren on my blog.

This is out of hand sometimes

[Pierce]

All Ingrid did was post the press release your publisher sent out which really did make you look silly for dragging the rotting carcass of popular culture into God's house. I mean seriously, Tim, Granger has "Material Girl" by Madonna performed by some chick in skin tight jeans on a Sunday morning. Do you not see how crazy that is? What a slap at God. Stuff is already ridiculous in church and then your book comes out saying we need EVEN MORE pop stuff. I am 19 years old and a college sophomore. You have to realize how "church" now has become a totally big joke and that's why a lot of my friends don't even go anymore. We're looking for something sacred, what's holy, not trash we can see on YouTube orMTV any time.

[Paul]

Tim,
Love what you guys do at Granger and how you connect with the disconnected. It obviously is a God-thing. We strive to reach people who have said no to relationship with Jesus as well, and we take some of the same shots as you. My only concern is that each time something like this is posted, readers of your blog will go and defend you on their blog and it becomes a bigger deal (check out the comments from just this morning on the blog you listed). In my opinion, we need to just let these things go away (I'm still learning to do this myself), they don't serve any purpose in us reaching out to people far from God. So, we just let God deal with it, and we keep at the mission He's called us to.

[Kevin]

Lesson to be learned (nothing you don't already know): People freak out when their paradigm's are pushed. Your book is going to push alot of these well-meaning (maybe) Pharisees, but Jesus made it clear: to show we love God, we have to love other people. That's what I see you doing at Granger and what you propose through "PGTC".

[Jeffrey Chambers]

Just finished browsing both sites you mentioned. All I can say is 'wow'.

In addition to the 'comments' (or attacks) directed at you and your book, I read additional 'comments' concerning Rob Bell, Ravi Zacharias, GCC, XXXChurch and many other great churches and individuals who are reaching out with the love of God and Christ, to show people that they truly matter to God.

I'd say you're in very good company. Can't wait to read the book. Keep up the great work!

[Mike Demastus]

I believe these guys are from the a capella Churches of Christ (non-denominational). They are affectionately known as the "Anti's" because they are against almost everything. They are also very fractured as a group, they can't even get along in their own little parties (go figure) because they argue over so many different things (i.e., whether or not there should be one cup at communion or multiple cups used; whether Sunday School is a Biblical practice or not; whether kitchens should be in the church building) I wish I was making all that up, but I am not. They are a very broken, small, angry group of people that thrives on and attracts people who enjoy spending more time arguing doctrine than winning people to Jesus. I say these things because that once was me (but now I'm found!) I grew up in it. It is sad you are their target, but don't worry they'll find someone else to be knocking soon enough. Most people don't attend their church, which gives them ample material to put in their cross-hairs.

They operate on a faulty hermeneutic principle that would state: If the Scriptures are silent on something, then it is naturally forbidden (i.e., using musical instruments in worship is wrong). But that argument breaks down in almost every way at every point for the modern believer. Scripture says nothing about sidewalks or carpet or how we dress currently. Scriptures are even silent on English Versions of Scripture. You can take the hermeneutic where ever you like, but it will always take you down the wrong path.

Sorry for the long post, but these folks still get to me. Just consider the source, bro. I have your new book and am going to be studying it with another guy in our church. I really appreciate all you do. I really miss the simply strategic pod cast too...I wish you'd bring that back someday!

[Mandy]

I do think there is one thing you could learn from both of the posts you linked to.....how not to treat other churches. After all, aren't we all on the same mission?

[Dave Mathewson]

the more i thought about what i would write, the longer this comment got so i erased it all and will just say thank you for now. Thanks for challenging me. Even though you don't know me, yourself and the people at GCC have challenged me in so many positive ways. here's a link to something i wrote early in april. i was venting out of some frustration at the time. pretty sure this doesn't answer your question, just my heart on some things. http://davidmathewson.blogspot.com/2008/04/our-generation.html

[Billy Andrews]

Tim,
If it were not for guys/churches like you and GCC most of us would be like the watchdogs...so keep encouraging us to focus on what matters - Lost people.

[Swish]

Tim,
I got Pop Goes the Culture from Mark Beeson at Our Life Together, and read it in a week. You are right on with what you are saying. When you read things like this, just remember what Paul did on Mars Hill; remember how Jesus taught his parables; and forget about what the critics have to say. Granger is going a great job of getting people the good news in a way that they can understand it and appropriate it where they are in their lives. As long as people are coming to know Christ and developing as mature disciples along the way, keep up the great work.

[Jeremy Johnson]

Tim, it saddens me to see Christians attack each other - We get enough attacks from the secular world to need any from our own brotherhood. I believe you are doing great work and please keep it going!

[Brice B]

Interesting comments on both sites. Really are not both sides doing the same thing? In your book you are basically criticizing the way they do church. On their blogs they are criticizing the way you do church.

The last comment says aren't we all on the same mission? Good advice for both sides, because from the cheap seats you guys look the same.

[Jonathan]

Tim,

First let me just say that it does bother me that so many people spend so much effort on tearing down other Christ centered ministies because of whay they percieve or interpret. Apparently they don't know you and they really don't know your church. So how can one value their opinion if these are the facts? Should we be aware of the accusations and condemnation? Yep, I think it's a smart move to maintain a certain level of awareness because we should always be on guard.

Mark Beeson, yourself, and the rest of GCC are making a difference for the Kingdom. Keep up the good work!

[Sam]

Tim,
Hang in there and keep doin what you're doin. I pray that the Body can have unity as Jesus prayed to the Father, and that God can turn a dialogue that is started in a mean-spirited and nasty way into something that brings people together rather than furthering division, and we can point to Him through it all. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Chris Rosebrough]

(Edited for length; Chris wrote out all passages, I just included references assuming we all have Bibles and can look them up - TIM)

The question posed in your interview was about "how to make the church relevant" as if it is a problem that the church isn't relevant.

The Bible is clear that the message that we've been given to preach is not relevant to anyone who is not already a believer.

1Cor. 1:20-24

In other words, you will never take a survey of 'unchurched' people and have them say, "what we really want to hear more of is that Gospel message of Jesus Christ crucified for our sins." Yet, that is precisely what we are called to preach.

1 Cor 2:2-4

The problem with your approach and methods is that it relies on worldly wisdom and worldly assumptions and worldly methods instead of the power and word of God.

In your interview you said, "We look for spiritual topics that are already taking place in the culture on t.v. shows, in the movies, in the songs and really just try to explore those topics."

Sorry, but that is NOT what Christian pastors are called to do. They are called to preach and teach God's word.

In fact, by letting the culture decide what topics you preach on you are guilty of doing exactly what 2 Tim 4:3-4 warned us about.

I've watched and listened to many many many Granger sermons and I've watched those sermons be purchased and used by hundreds of other churches across the country. They are MAN focused not cross focused. They are self-help, pop-psychology pep talks that do not accurately teach God's word in context. This again contradicts the scriptures.

2 Cor. 4:5

Even worse, this marraige of the world with the church does not honor God and contradicts the clear warnings of scripture.

Galatians 6:14, James 4:4, 2Cor. 6:14-18

Rather than come out from the world and be separate from it, Granger has brought the world into the church.

The church doesn't need Madonna it needs the foolishness of 'Christ Crucified for our Sins'.

The church doesn't need Van Halen it needs the irrelevance of 'Christ Crucified for our Sins'.

The church doesn't need Grease, SNL, the latest movies or the latest gameshows it needs the scandalous and repulsively weak message of 'Christ Crucified for our Sins' and pastors who will faithfully preach and teach God's word in context Sunday after Sunday.

God promises that the message of 'Christ Crucified for our Sins' is what he uses to lead people to repentance and faith (Rom 10:17). These worldly methods that rely on worldly wisdom have no power to bring people to repentance and faith and actually contradict what God has called HIS holy church to do.

Repent.

[Phil Thompson]

Heretic! ---i know it can be a drag when people seem so hard headed but you guys are not trying to reach those kind of thinkers anyway! Methods must change but the Message doesn't, keep up the good work!

[Scott]

You asked if there's something you could learn here - yeah, "Online Discernment Ministries are basically the religious version of playground bullies" would be one lesson.

I don't waste my valuable time on the Modern Day Pharisees at the ODM's. But, I'm usually "for" whoever they're "against" - so they do have a sliver of purpose in their otherwise wasted lives.

[John S]

Congratulations Tim! You know you've made it big when malcontents take the time to do this...

[John Cremeans]

Keep leading smart Tim. This guy is giving me flash backs to my past. To be honest...I wish I hadn't even visited his site because it gets me "off my game".

I love your book...we bought it for all our staff and elders. Keep doing what you are doing and don't waste your time with these kind of haters. Loved the shirt...they make that in XXL?