Beer and Bible – My Thoughts
Perhaps you followed our discussion last week about some guys in Utah who are offering a Beer and Bible study in a local lounge. (If not, you gotta at least watch the video). I loved the conversation (more than 80 comments so far) and appreciate the diverse views (from “it is sin!” to “how else will we reach people?”). I promised I’d tell you what I think (which I did in a comment but most people will never make it that far), so, let me say…
I absolutely loved the discussion!
After reading every comment with great interest, I think it comes down to one basic issue. I don’t want to over-simplify, but I think every person’s view of alcohol colors their response. I know my view colors my response…
I don’t drink alcohol. Yes–I’ve had a few of those fruity drinks while sitting on a beach in Mexico (and I should also confess that I LOVE Nyquil), but I’ve never had a beer and don’t drink wine. Why? I love Coke, it’s a lot cheaper, and I’m a tight-wad. But many (most) of my friends drink in my presence–and it’s not an issue for me.
I don’t think alcohol is evil. I don’t think a bar is a den of iniquity. I’ve never had to deal with an alcoholic in my family and I’ve never lost anyone close to me because of the actions of a drunk. Those are all very important factors which color my response.
That being said, I absolutely LOVE what these guys are doing. There is really nothing innovative about Christians having a spiritual conversation in a bar with someone who isn’t yet convinced. That happens every day in every city across our country (praise God!). However, what is innovative is a couple pastor-type dudes who see that as a way to make an impact in a community where there are ZERO non-Mormon churches. They aren’t hanging a banner and saying, “You come to us.” They have made an intentional decision: Let’s go where the people are. That’s exactly what Jesus did when the religious-types were looking down on him for the same thing. He didn’t care what they thought–he went anyway! He didn’t expect or wait for the crowd to come to him (although sometimes they did)–he hung out with them.
You may disagree with the method or location–but these guys hearts are in the right place. They are going to rub shoulders with some people who they would NEVER otherwise reach. They are going to spend time with a grandfather who–without intervention is going to RUIN his family–but he will hear of the grace of Jesus and his life will change–not because he stops drinking, but because he is transformed from the inside out and his values and choices are turned upside down. That’s what Jesus does–and that excites me.
So…I celebrate it. God bless you Charles and Patrick. Carry on.
Posted by Tim Stevens | 26 comments
Ashley Jensen
Agreed Tim, great comments.
Eric
I love it!!! We have a bar ministry with our church on the Mississippi Gulf Coast where some of our guys go in and just make connections with folks and shoot a game of pool or something. I love the creativity and the willingness to be the Intervention for Jesus! Thanks for your comments Tim!
Michelle
That's a ministry team that I'd like to sign up for.
Paul Clifford
Agreed. Jesus said to go to the highways and biways and compel them to come. To be a follower of Christ is to go where you may not want to, setting aside your comfortable life for the sake of others. That's what He did first. Those of us who aren't alcoholics should go. Women who aren't sex addicts should try and rescue strippers. Above all go where Jesus tells you to, but run it past a Christian leader first for confirmation.
Paul
just add cigars to the group and it sounds like one of our mens Bible study groups here @Relevant. I applaud these guys passion and heart to reach people right where they are.
Lori
Amen.
kim
Read this the other day and loved it:
If you want to win the world to Christ, you'll have to sit in the smoking section-Neil Cole
dale
Thanks for posting. Too bad some of our friends can't allow themselves to see the message through the method. We have to GO reach the unreached!
wpusey
Great comment Tim, I've read a lot of articles about people doing church in a bar over the past couple years. I personally think its a great idea and what Jesus would do. That's why I do it also, and it has been fruitful. It always amazes me how people listen so intently to you when your talking about Jesus while drinking a beer with them in a bar. Be blessed!
CSF
Our church has been participating in a citywide program called Theology on Tap, for several years now. It is just as much for those in our congregations, as for others who might have a curiosity to participate. We don't go to bars, simply because they are a prime place to find "lost souls", but more because they are an integral part of the community. A comfortable space to relax in, enjoy a frosty beverage (or not frosty, if that is your preference) and contemplate the wonders and challenges of our lives and how our faith and the bible relate. In communion with others, we are co-voyaging with in this search and exploration of who God is and who we are.
Chaz
Christ didn't turn the water into grape juice. Christ hung out with those that needed him most. Christ went to where the sinners were.
culturalawakening
Following your lead and posting my own thoughts on this. It's a great topic and worth exploring/dissecting. I'll see you in Orlando. Just registered for your pre-conference at Exponential. Peace.
Mike
Please note… You're very mistaken about there being no non-mormon churches in the community. There are about 100 Christian churches in the state, 50 or more of them in the Salt Lake Valley where this topic covers. Of course, the Christian Population is 1% here.
faithntim
Mike — I'm guessing you have some information not available to the pastor of this brand new church plant. He said (in his comments to the original post), "We are planting by a city of 21K without 1 non-LDS church of any kind in it. NOT ONE!" He'll be very happy to know you are aware of some–perhaps you can contact him directly with that information.
Mikey
We will be planting in Herriman, where there is zip for non-LDS churches.
Yes, please, if you do have information contrary to this, please contact us through our website.
http://www.beerandbible.tv
Thanks bro!
jason
I live in New York, I drink, I'm a staff pastor. My whole issue with it is the rather peculiar, borderline judgmental, attitude that people far from God are in bars drinking their hope away. I go to bars all the time..we live in New York, its what we do. I support it, but I just wish their video was a bit toned down in that realm. For my city I would argue there are more lost people having brunch at 7A in East Village on a given Sunday morning than at any bar in this city the night before. Yet for some reason outside of urban settings it seems that Sunday brunch is not a place "sinners" hang out or "Jesus would go". I don't know, I don't really understand that thinking. It seems backwards to me. I love idea, however the approach and the general idea framework within the video made me want to throw up.
dmbaldwin
I told you that you were going to say you loved what those guys were doing! One thought that came to me a couple of days later was my Alpha experience. Because Alpha is strict on starting and stopping times, many of the conversations started in Alpha at Holy Trinity Brompton, England are concluded in nearby pubs. Nicky Gumbel states that more people pray to receive Christ in the pubs around Holy Trinity than at Alpha itself.
Thank you for the two posts Tim. I enjoy the way you get conversations going.
Blessings,
Dave
PS: We had to make a quick trip to WI last weekend. We were on the IN Toll Road and passed Granger twice. So wanted to get off and come by and say hi. We could see the church from the toll road.
DMB
Steve
I agree with you that a persons opinion about alcohol is probably the deciding factor on how people feel about this approach. I visited the pub in Oxford where C.S. Lewis and JRR Tolkien used to hang out and talk. I am sure those conversations included a pint or two.
Paul
Mike (above) is correct. My church is less than a mile from where this beer and Bible study is taking place. That said, we need more good churches in Utah. The 1% evangelical population is a verifiable number. Do I think that this is a good approach to church planting in Utah? I don't know. It all depends on the target audience. We are talking about a highly LDS, white, middle class, big family, suburban setting. Part of me wonders if this is a "missional" approach to reaching the majority of the people who live there, or if they are just trying to focus on a subgroup within that population? It is worthy of dialogue and I don't want to diminish their efforts for the Kingdom.
Mikey
Paul,
Please contact us through our website so we can discuss this further. Especially since you are in the area, we would love to chat about how we can be one in Christ!
Peace bro! http://www.beerandbible.tv
Hawk
Why not take it a step further and become a porn actor to reach porn stars, do cocaine to reach coke addicts, molest children to reach child molesters. Give me a break. You don't need to be like the world to reach the world.
faithntim
Great idea…because I Timothy 5 says to "take a little porn for the sake of your stomach" and Jesus turned water into cocaine for the wedding guests. Your comment, Hawk, is predicated on the fact that alcohol is a sin, which can not be substantiated by Scripture.
Aaron
Very correct Hawk, because we all know that by doing those things of the 'world', the only world you reach are fellow mates in a concrete 8×12. yes? And thus forcing your focus back to him…? The Lord works in mysterious ways…
Nathan
I'm an active Mormon living in Utah and think this is a great idea. It helps more people grow closer to Christ, and provides a great social network. I wish you success.
daddyheath
Just saw the story where the funding got pulled from these guys and he was "fired." It's athttp://www.christianpost.com/article/20100426/chu… and it's pretty sad.
Aaron
I think that putting the name in correct order would have helped…
Something like "Bible brew"… I mean, the purpose of his outreach was to share the word of God, not drink beer, with a little Jesus on the side…
I've done what Tim describes many times… And should we give measures of praise to those who hide their perceived iniquities? I suppose, why not. (See you Sunday)