Comments on: What is a Church?

By: Mike Mullins

Mike Mullins — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:27:26 +0000

In response to Andre's comment, I have always thought that the problem with the church is that it is too horizontal. The more we become vertical in our approach the easier the horizontal aspects of church life work out. Andre, I may be missing what you are saying, so if there is a further clarification I would like to hear it.

By: Daryl

Daryl — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:29:45 +0000

I have one question that i would love to hear your feedback on. He says a "Covenented Community" which i love that statement and definition, but my question is should a church, speaking to the local body of the whole, should it be multi-generational? I only ask as a youth pastor who has many students who feel that our student service is their "church" and not our "church". 2nd question, Is it dangerous to have a church of the same generation when it comes to discipleship/ Just some questions i have that i would love wisdom from others on.

By: Wiley

Wiley — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:53:22 +0000

Missing declared leadership and sacraments

By: Chuck Allen

Chuck Allen — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:27:15 +0000

This sounds like a book I'd like to read. Interesting conversation.

One quick question for the group here: Where do we get the "covenanted" part of this? I don't see much precedent in the NT for saying those churches had covenants, commitments or even official membership. Am I just misunderstanding the use of the word in this case? I agree that our command is to love one another which would imply a strong commitment on my part to other Christians, but can we really call that "covenanted"? Maybe reading the book will give me some further insight into what is meant?

By: andrewong2024

andrewong2024 — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:29:49 +0000

The Church is supposed to be a horizontal organisation, not vertical; Spirit empowered and not system managed.

By: Boyd Allen

Boyd Allen — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:39:09 +0000

I love Alan Hirsch's work…it's great to hear others (especially in leadership) talking about these ideas.

By: Dan O'Deens

Dan O'Deens — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:21:21 +0000

Although I agree and appreciate Hirsch and Cole and can totally get behind what they are doing, I have questions: It seems that NT churches were identifiable. ie. The Church at Corinth; It seems that there was appointed leadership. ie. He appointed Elders and Deacons; It seems that viability should matter….I have NO CLUE what that means, other than they should be sustainable at least to recognize they exist and where are they. It seems there should be some system of accountability to God appointed and annointed spiritual leadership. Just my thots as I consider what Hirsch and Cole legitimately practice.

By: Bill (cycleguy)

Bill (cycleguy) — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:07:43 +0000

I agree. I think some of those are givens that a church should have and include. #2 is absolutely important but what sets it apart for me is his use of "covenanted community." That speaks of more than a Sunday gathering or a "let's have a fellowship dinner" where everyone goes to their tables and eat with the same folks they always do. A covenanted community (as he states so well) had a bond that transcends feel good stuff.

By: dannyjbixby

dannyjbixby — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:56:55 +0000

Agreed.

But I think it's easy to read something like that and our brains start to isolate out all the extras and say they're not a part of a church. We start to look at the building, the staff, the paid preacher, the etc….but I don't see any reason why those can't be a part of it.

Hirsch's definition of a church does not exclude aspects like those, in my opinion.

By: Chris W

Chris W — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:41:03 +0000

Church = fruit bearing community of Jesus freaks? Can't argue with that!

Sincerely, it sounds like part of the focus is how a church is NOT defined – it's not a few people but does not have to be hundreds or thousands – it's community. It's not just about getting together and it's not just about singing along – it's covenant and it's Christian. Oh, and it's alive and bears fruit (discipleship and Mission). Again, can't argue with that!