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	<title>Comments on: What Do You Measure?</title>
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	<description>Practical Stuff for Church Leaders</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17093</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17093</guid>
		<description>That last reply was an inside joke. Actually you pastors and staff members of churches, still trying to entertain people into the kingdom and trying to leverage pop culture and whatever other new things you guys think you&#039;re doing, still dont get it. If you have to ask the question, how do we measure it or determine our success, that tells me something and it should tell you something. Really if you&#039;re goal is to reach souls for Christ, then you won&#039;t really know for sure until you get to heaven man. Stop wasting energy, and time, and surveys. You guys still don&#039;t get it. I&#039;m not sure why I even visit these blogs. I guess it&#039;s entertaining. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last reply was an inside joke. Actually you pastors and staff members of churches, still trying to entertain people into the kingdom and trying to leverage pop culture and whatever other new things you guys think you&#039;re doing, still dont get it. If you have to ask the question, how do we measure it or determine our success, that tells me something and it should tell you something. Really if you&#039;re goal is to reach souls for Christ, then you won&#039;t really know for sure until you get to heaven man. Stop wasting energy, and time, and surveys. You guys still don&#039;t get it. I&#039;m not sure why I even visit these blogs. I guess it&#039;s entertaining.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17090</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17090</guid>
		<description>Count how many cigarette butts are in the church parking lot on Sunday morning. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count how many cigarette butts are in the church parking lot on Sunday morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17085</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17085</guid>
		<description>Part 2 
 
Now on metrics there are direct metrics and indirect metrics and direct are the best but not always available so then we use indirect metrics.  If we can actually get a count disiples then we should use that.  An indirect count of disiples might be number of attenders, because we believe that the more people that attend, the more disciples we will create.  Indirect metrics require an assumption of a relationship that should be verified before the metric is used.  Impact on the community is also an indirect metric as it assumes that if we have more diciples then we will impact the community in greater ways.  It also shows some maturity of the disiple in that the diciple is not just coming to Sunday worship, they are actively loving others, their community. 
 
I could go on but this is a blog not a class. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part 2 </p>
<p>Now on metrics there are direct metrics and indirect metrics and direct are the best but not always available so then we use indirect metrics.  If we can actually get a count disiples then we should use that.  An indirect count of disiples might be number of attenders, because we believe that the more people that attend, the more disciples we will create.  Indirect metrics require an assumption of a relationship that should be verified before the metric is used.  Impact on the community is also an indirect metric as it assumes that if we have more diciples then we will impact the community in greater ways.  It also shows some maturity of the disiple in that the diciple is not just coming to Sunday worship, they are actively loving others, their community. </p>
<p>I could go on but this is a blog not a class.</p>
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		<title>By: Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17084</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17084</guid>
		<description>I work in the business world as a consultant, helping small companies with strategic planning.  I am trying to help my Church using similar tools to identify and success at achieving our mission. 
 
Key metrics is a critical part of the strategic planning process and I like to have the organization identify 9-12 that act like the dash board of your car.  You can glance down at the dash board and see how you are doing.  How is the organization running.  Are you making progress towards your mission? 
 
But the question asked here is what are the 2-3 key metrics the tell us we are achieving our mission!  I see alot of agreement that our mission is make diciples.   The problem is we don&#039;t turn blue when we become a diciple so diciples aren&#039;t that easy to identify and count!  Also, becoming a disiple is a journey with Christ and so when are we as individual there? 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in the business world as a consultant, helping small companies with strategic planning.  I am trying to help my Church using similar tools to identify and success at achieving our mission. </p>
<p>Key metrics is a critical part of the strategic planning process and I like to have the organization identify 9-12 that act like the dash board of your car.  You can glance down at the dash board and see how you are doing.  How is the organization running.  Are you making progress towards your mission? </p>
<p>But the question asked here is what are the 2-3 key metrics the tell us we are achieving our mission!  I see alot of agreement that our mission is make diciples.   The problem is we don&#039;t turn blue when we become a diciple so diciples aren&#039;t that easy to identify and count!  Also, becoming a disiple is a journey with Christ and so when are we as individual there?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17083</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17083</guid>
		<description>As a Worship Pastor, our team grapples with this every Easter as we plan and build our services from the end-forward.  Do we harvest contact information so we can manually cultivate or just let God&#039;s Spirit organically duplicate... both/and is where we always land, but measuring that is THE question at hand ;) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Worship Pastor, our team grapples with this every Easter as we plan and build our services from the end-forward.  Do we harvest contact information so we can manually cultivate or just let God&#039;s Spirit organically duplicate&#8230; both/and is where we always land, but measuring that is THE question at hand <img src='http://www.leadingsmart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: IndyChristian</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17072</link>
		<dc:creator>IndyChristian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17072</guid>
		<description>Borrowing from the academic world, assessments ultimately measure the quantity outcomes (graduates), and their quality outcomes (GPA).  Admittedly it has flaws to be constantly working on, but those two types of measurements keep everyone focused on the mission/goals. 
 
In the Church, graduates are the disciplers -- the Paul&#039;s. 
 
And in the academic world, the key driver being measured, is FTE... full-time equivalent student based on the number of hours of training.   
 
Again, the system can have flaws such as the proverbial Career Student... always taking more &amp; more training but never leaving the friendly confines of the academic 4 walls.  Do we see that tendency inside the Church as well?  Measure the Timothys actively committed to the core-training... including OJT beyond the walls. 
 
Are we the local church actually accomplishing the Great Commission in our microcosm?  [ie, go ye pervasively throughout our location, location, location?]  Measure the percentage of homes/families within the shadow of our steeple, who have optimally heard/seen the gospel.   [Notice I said optimally.  Doorhangers and bullhorns don&#039;t count.] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Borrowing from the academic world, assessments ultimately measure the quantity outcomes (graduates), and their quality outcomes (GPA).  Admittedly it has flaws to be constantly working on, but those two types of measurements keep everyone focused on the mission/goals. </p>
<p>In the Church, graduates are the disciplers &#8212; the Paul&#039;s. </p>
<p>And in the academic world, the key driver being measured, is FTE&#8230; full-time equivalent student based on the number of hours of training.   </p>
<p>Again, the system can have flaws such as the proverbial Career Student&#8230; always taking more &amp; more training but never leaving the friendly confines of the academic 4 walls.  Do we see that tendency inside the Church as well?  Measure the Timothys actively committed to the core-training&#8230; including OJT beyond the walls. </p>
<p>Are we the local church actually accomplishing the Great Commission in our microcosm?  [ie, go ye pervasively throughout our location, location, location?]  Measure the percentage of homes/families within the shadow of our steeple, who have optimally heard/seen the gospel.   [Notice I said optimally.  Doorhangers and bullhorns don&#039;t count.]</p>
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		<title>By: Terrace Crawford</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17071</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrace Crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17071</guid>
		<description>I think we have a real problem in the church with measurements.  I loved Reggie McNeal&#039;s book (Missional Renaissance) on changing the scorecard for the church.   
 
By the way, I tend to measure the wrong things too.    
 
But I do think its healthy when the team agrees on measurements. 
 
--Terrace Crawford 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.terracecrawford.com&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;www.terracecrawford.com&lt;/a&gt; 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.twitter.com/terracecrawford&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;www.twitter.com/terracecrawford&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we have a real problem in the church with measurements.  I loved Reggie McNeal&#039;s book (Missional Renaissance) on changing the scorecard for the church.   </p>
<p>By the way, I tend to measure the wrong things too.    </p>
<p>But I do think its healthy when the team agrees on measurements. </p>
<p>&#8211;Terrace Crawford<br />
<a href="http://www.terracecrawford.com" target="_blank">http://www.terracecrawford.com</a><br />
<a href="http://www.twitter.com/terracecrawford" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/terracecrawford</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17068</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17068</guid>
		<description>Tim - love this post. I&#039;ve been playing in around with the &quot;metrics&quot; of a transformed life for a while. I come up with things like: a person is more apt to serve others in Jesus&#039; name...more apt to serve first (and to lead, speak, teach, opine, prevaricate second)...more apt to make sure that other peoples&#039; legitimate needs are being met...a person is clearly growing in love, hope and faith...becoming healthier...wiser...freer...growing in concern over the &quot;least of these&quot;...and the kicker is that an interdependent community of people like this are growing stronger together...giving all glory to Jesus...worshiping him...praying to him...seeking to be massively invaded by His Spirit.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim &#8211; love this post. I&#39;ve been playing in around with the &quot;metrics&quot; of a transformed life for a while. I come up with things like: a person is more apt to serve others in Jesus&#39; name&#8230;more apt to serve first (and to lead, speak, teach, opine, prevaricate second)&#8230;more apt to make sure that other peoples&#39; legitimate needs are being met&#8230;a person is clearly growing in love, hope and faith&#8230;becoming healthier&#8230;wiser&#8230;freer&#8230;growing in concern over the &quot;least of these&quot;&#8230;and the kicker is that an interdependent community of people like this are growing stronger together&#8230;giving all glory to Jesus&#8230;worshiping him&#8230;praying to him&#8230;seeking to be massively invaded by His Spirit.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17070</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17070</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a pastor.  Just thought I should state that in advance. ;) 
 
But this post totally hurts my head! 
 
It seems like there are two different perspectives to be considered.   
How do you measure if you&#039;re reaching your goals?   
Church (the corporation) goals... or Church (the body) goals?   
 
Because while in a perfect world they&#039;d be the same in this world I think they sometimes aren&#039;t.  Church the Corporation has goals that aim to keep it &quot;in business.&quot;  If the corporation goes out of business, then what?  And Church the Corporation often has to provide what the people &quot;want&quot; to receive tithes and boost attendance. 
 
While Church the Body has other goals.  Like moving people to live and act like Christ.  To be more Christlike.  (Church the Body isn&#039;t worried about paying for buildings, lighting, heat, salaries, etc). And didn&#039;t Christ generally rub &quot;the religious leaders&quot; the wrong way?  Didn&#039;t he question the status quo, religious activities and general beliefs of his day?  
 
I&#039;m not a problem causer. ;)  I&#039;m just a wife and mom who grew up in the church and lately finds it to be very corporate, watered down (sermons that don&#039;t push people out of their comfort zones, small groups that don&#039;t really DIG into the word) and finding it hard to attend.  It just doesn&#039;t feel REAL anymore.  GOD feels real.  But the church (corporation) doesn&#039;t seem to be lining up with the church (Christ).   
 
Obviously I&#039;m confused.  ;)  Just thought writing it down and sharing it here could lead to some clarity.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not a pastor.  Just thought I should state that in advance. <img src='http://www.leadingsmart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>But this post totally hurts my head! </p>
<p>It seems like there are two different perspectives to be considered.<br />
How do you measure if you&#039;re reaching your goals?<br />
Church (the corporation) goals&#8230; or Church (the body) goals?   </p>
<p>Because while in a perfect world they&#039;d be the same in this world I think they sometimes aren&#039;t.  Church the Corporation has goals that aim to keep it &quot;in business.&quot;  If the corporation goes out of business, then what?  And Church the Corporation often has to provide what the people &quot;want&quot; to receive tithes and boost attendance. </p>
<p>While Church the Body has other goals.  Like moving people to live and act like Christ.  To be more Christlike.  (Church the Body isn&#039;t worried about paying for buildings, lighting, heat, salaries, etc). And didn&#039;t Christ generally rub &quot;the religious leaders&quot; the wrong way?  Didn&#039;t he question the status quo, religious activities and general beliefs of his day?  </p>
<p>I&#039;m not a problem causer. <img src='http://www.leadingsmart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   I&#039;m just a wife and mom who grew up in the church and lately finds it to be very corporate, watered down (sermons that don&#039;t push people out of their comfort zones, small groups that don&#039;t really DIG into the word) and finding it hard to attend.  It just doesn&#039;t feel REAL anymore.  GOD feels real.  But the church (corporation) doesn&#039;t seem to be lining up with the church (Christ).   </p>
<p>Obviously I&#039;m confused.  <img src='http://www.leadingsmart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   Just thought writing it down and sharing it here could lead to some clarity.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Alexander</title>
		<link>http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/what-do-you-measure.html#comment-17064</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5288#comment-17064</guid>
		<description>Thanks for keeping the right questions in front of the Church and driving us to the right kinds of conversations!  Great post Tim! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for keeping the right questions in front of the Church and driving us to the right kinds of conversations!  Great post Tim!</p>
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