Comments on: The Church as the Delivery Mechanism for the Gospel Must Change! http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html Practical Stuff for Church Leaders Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:37:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Tim Stevens http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17123 Tim Stevens Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:23:24 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17123 Once again, Brice, so helpful.<br /> Once again, Brice, so helpful.

]]> By: Tom Becker http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17121 Tom Becker Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:54:17 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17121 If I cant afford your book right now Tim can you give examples of Jesus attempting to attract a crowd. If I cant afford your book right now Tim can you give examples of Jesus attempting to attract a crowd.

]]> By: Brice Bohrer http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17120 Brice Bohrer Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:54:58 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17120 If only we as churches could do all of the stuff I read on blogs. It seems like we would then have it all wrapped up and everyone would be a Christian. Sarcasm is my love language... If only we as churches could do all of the stuff I read on blogs. It seems like we would then have it all wrapped up and everyone would be a Christian.

Sarcasm is my love language…

]]> By: Tim Stevens http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17119 Tim Stevens Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:59:54 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17119 I should write a book about that. Oh wait, I already did! (Just kidding). But check out "Pop Goes the Church" if you want some biblical examples of the attractional methodology. There are many churches attempting to attract a crowd and failing miserably. Some even causing more damage than good. But there are hundreds of churches who aren't in that category. They are seeing changed and surrendered lives every day, and the community is a different place because of their impact. It's so easy to discredit something if you haven't personally seen it. But it's happening. All around! I should write a book about that. Oh wait, I already did! (Just kidding). But check out "Pop Goes the Church" if you want some biblical examples of the attractional methodology.

There are many churches attempting to attract a crowd and failing miserably. Some even causing more damage than good. But there are hundreds of churches who aren't in that category. They are seeing changed and surrendered lives every day, and the community is a different place because of their impact.

It's so easy to discredit something if you haven't personally seen it. But it's happening. All around!

]]> By: Tim Stevens http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17118 Tim Stevens Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:57:07 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17118 David - no reason to be suspicious. Hirsch is being very helpful to further a needed conversation in the American church--and irregardless of whether you can personally and tangibly validate his ministry -- it's no reason to cast doubt upon it for others. Just keep up your great ministry at Westside! David – no reason to be suspicious. Hirsch is being very helpful to further a needed conversation in the American church–and irregardless of whether you can personally and tangibly validate his ministry — it's no reason to cast doubt upon it for others. Just keep up your great ministry at Westside!

]]> By: Tim Stevens http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17117 Tim Stevens Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:52:40 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17117 It's a great point Nick. The 40% is not a scientific number...he was basing that on the response of the crowd that he was speaking to (and suggested it is a similar number to other crowds he has surveyed). He said, "If the attractional church was operating at its best and incredibly effective--what % of the community do you think it would appeal to?" He said he's never heard more than 60% and in some places it's probably 15-20%. So as an American average, he uses 40%. I tend to agree. If you look at such studies as reported in "UNCHRISTIAN" you can see over and over that many people have respect for Jesus, and God, and have a level of spirituality--but they reject the institutional church in any form. It's a great point Nick. The 40% is not a scientific number…he was basing that on the response of the crowd that he was speaking to (and suggested it is a similar number to other crowds he has surveyed). He said, "If the attractional church was operating at its best and incredibly effective–what % of the community do you think it would appeal to?" He said he's never heard more than 60% and in some places it's probably 15-20%. So as an American average, he uses 40%.

I tend to agree. If you look at such studies as reported in "UNCHRISTIAN" you can see over and over that many people have respect for Jesus, and God, and have a level of spirituality–but they reject the institutional church in any form.

]]> By: Ken Eastburn http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17116 Ken Eastburn Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:17:46 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17116 "Keep doing attractional. It works for 40%. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. I’m interested in finding the AND!" I question this statement to my core. But my reason is because I doubt how authentic is the faith of many currently sitting in churches. What is Hirsch's definition of when something "worked"? That they came to your church? Big deal. If people are not becoming like Christ, in the way that Christ wants them to, it doesn't matter whether they are at church every Sunday. And that's why I think the whole attractional thing is doing anything but "working." I can't find a place in the Gospels where Jesus made attempts to attract people. Can anyone else? "Keep doing attractional. It works for 40%. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. I’m interested in finding the AND!"

I question this statement to my core. But my reason is because I doubt how authentic is the faith of many currently sitting in churches. What is Hirsch's definition of when something "worked"? That they came to your church? Big deal. If people are not becoming like Christ, in the way that Christ wants them to, it doesn't matter whether they are at church every Sunday.

And that's why I think the whole attractional thing is doing anything but "working." I can't find a place in the Gospels where Jesus made attempts to attract people. Can anyone else?

]]> By: Ken Eastburn http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17115 Ken Eastburn Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:17:46 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17115 "Keep doing attractional. It works for 40%. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. I’m interested in finding the AND!" I question this statement to my core. But my reason is because I doubt how authentic is the faith of many currently sitting in churches. What is Hirsch's definition of when something "worked"? That they came to your church? Big deal. If people are not becoming like Christ, in the way that Christ wants them to, it doesn't matter whether they are at church every Sunday. And that's why I think the whole attractional thing is doing anything but "working." I can't find a place in the Gospels where Jesus made attempts to attract people. Can anyone else? "Keep doing attractional. It works for 40%. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. I’m interested in finding the AND!"

I question this statement to my core. But my reason is because I doubt how authentic is the faith of many currently sitting in churches. What is Hirsch's definition of when something "worked"? That they came to your church? Big deal. If people are not becoming like Christ, in the way that Christ wants them to, it doesn't matter whether they are at church every Sunday.

And that's why I think the whole attractional thing is doing anything but "working." I can't find a place in the Gospels where Jesus made attempts to attract people. Can anyone else?

]]> By: David Ravell http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17111 David Ravell Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:21:52 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17111 HI Tim, Thanks for your response. I have the book and read it a year or two ago. Since then I have been trying to find the churches that this experience comes from - seriously I am wondering if they exist, I can't find them. I would genuinely like to find them, as longevity is a huge test of church(gospel) planting effectiveness. The book wasn't particularly eye opening from the Australian perspective -heavy on academic theory - boy I sound arrogant. I am also skeptical of the "big survey" in your post - again I can't find it. Who did it, who did they survey? There is one group that does surveys here but they survey church goers. HI Tim,
Thanks for your response.
I have the book and read it a year or two ago. Since then I have been trying to find the churches that this experience comes from – seriously I am wondering if they exist, I can't find them. I would genuinely like to find them, as longevity is a huge test of church(gospel) planting effectiveness. The book wasn't particularly eye opening from the Australian perspective -heavy on academic theory – boy I sound arrogant. I am also skeptical of the "big survey" in your post – again I can't find it. Who did it, who did they survey? There is one group that does surveys here but they survey church goers.

]]> By: Bob D'Ambrosio http://www.leadingsmart.com/2010/02/the-church-as-the-delivery-mechanism-for-the-gospel-must-change.html#comment-17114 Bob D'Ambrosio Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:41:35 +0000 http://www.leadingsmart.com/?p=5343#comment-17114 Alan Hirsch will keynote at the LifeServe National Conference, Columbus, OH, Sept 29 - Oct 1st, 2010. This event will also feature in-depth training tracks on equipping and becoming an externally focused church. Check it out: <a href="http://lifeserve.group.com/default.group" target="_blank">http://lifeserve.group.com/default.group</a> Alan Hirsch will keynote at the LifeServe National Conference, Columbus, OH, Sept 29 – Oct 1st, 2010. This event will also feature in-depth training tracks on equipping and becoming an externally focused church. Check it out: http://lifeserve.group.com/default.group

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