Alan Hirsch has been rocking my boat lately. Here are some quotables from his session today at Velocity.
- We will win or lose the battle for the Church from here in America. If it doesn’t happen from America, it’s going to continue to decline in America.
- We live in a time when our decisions make a difference in the world–and that’s a great thing to celebrate!
- Missional is not just another cute buzz word–it changes everything about how we do church.
- Many years ago–the church was in the center of society. Translating the language didn’t take much.
- But, the church is becoming increasingly isolated in a quickly changing world.
- All communication of the gospel in the west is cross-cultural. We have to become cross-cultural missionaries. (I remember someone writing about that in Pop Goes the Church!).
- Attractional churches work well to reach people who are not too far removed (culturally). When people get further away–it doesn’t work as well. Why? Because we are asking the individual to do the cross-cultural translation to come into the church (rather than us going to them).
- Huge survey in Australia on people’s perception of…
- God = HIGH marks
- Jesus = HIGH marks
- Spirituality = HIGH marks
- Church = VERY LOW marks
- The good news is that people give VERY high marks on God, Jesus and Spirituality. That is good news for us.
- What has to change? The CHURCH as the delivery mechanism for the gospel MUST CHANGE.
- The problem–90%+ of churches are trying to follow the contemporary, church-growth, attractional model that…at best…will only reach 40% of Americans.
- The problems of the church cannot be solved by doing the same thing that got us into those problems.
- The church that Jesus designed was meant for advance and attack–not defense!
- Keep doing attractional. It works for 40%. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. I’m interested in finding the AND!
- Mission precedes the church. You do mission. The church is something that happens out of mission.
- You plant the gospel. You don’t plant churches. Church planters should be missionaries first.
If you haven’t read The Forgotten Ways yet by Alan Hirsch…get it today. (Hey Granger–there are copies in the bookstore!).
17 Comments
so good. thanks for sharing Tim. Al's got some good thoughts without necessarily throwing out the place larger gathering.
I'd love to hear how he knows the "attractional model" will reach 40% at best. I'm assuming that's based on how many people are being reached so far, and assuming most churches are "attractional".
I know this sounds horribly negative, but I would say that only about 1% of churches that are "attractional" do it well. So, if we looked at their effectiveness and not the effectiveness of all the others, I can't imagine how one would think it could only reach 40%.
Besides, people have to be missional in the lives of unchurched people in order to invite them to church. Let's face it, most new church attenders are invited. They don't show up just because the church is "attractional". I love how he noted it's both/and. All models are really a mix of the other models, with more emphasis on one.
It's a great point Nick. The 40% is not a scientific number…he was basing that on the response of the crowd that he was speaking to (and suggested it is a similar number to other crowds he has surveyed). He said, "If the attractional church was operating at its best and incredibly effective–what % of the community do you think it would appeal to?" He said he's never heard more than 60% and in some places it's probably 15-20%. So as an American average, he uses 40%.
I tend to agree. If you look at such studies as reported in "UNCHRISTIAN" you can see over and over that many people have respect for Jesus, and God, and have a level of spirituality–but they reject the institutional church in any form.
Ever since I heard about an Australian (apparently South African by birth) named Alan Hirsch who had become popular in the USA, I have been searching for a church he has planted in Australia – I prefer to learn from practitioners since that is what missionaries are – practitioners. Since you are talking with him this week, could you ask him to tell you the names of the churches he has planted here? Yes my question is skeptical, but I am genuinely interested, and would happily have my suspicions proven wrong.
David–you are repeating EXACTLY what I said a few months ago when someone suggested I should pay attention to what Hirsch was saying. I'd encourage you to pick up a copy of The Forgotten Ways–the first entire section of the book is devoted to his 15+ years of church planting and pastoring experience in Australia. I was especially moved by the frankness in which he talks about what worked and what didn't work. His story (and subsequent times when I've heard him expound on it) removed my skepticism as I realized this guy is (or at least recently was) a practitioner.
HI Tim,
Thanks for your response.
I have the book and read it a year or two ago. Since then I have been trying to find the churches that this experience comes from – seriously I am wondering if they exist, I can't find them. I would genuinely like to find them, as longevity is a huge test of church(gospel) planting effectiveness. The book wasn't particularly eye opening from the Australian perspective -heavy on academic theory – boy I sound arrogant. I am also skeptical of the "big survey" in your post – again I can't find it. Who did it, who did they survey? There is one group that does surveys here but they survey church goers.
Alan Hirsch sounds like a missionary. Attractional only works with the people like you. You have to step out to the ones who aren't like you to bring them the Gospel in a way they can understand.
Why can't I find all this stuff e.g. if you were wondering about my church planting experience you could find Westside Christian Fellowship in Auckland, NZ, (http://www.westside.org.nz) and you could find http://www.journeychurch.com.au, because they have been reasonably effective and still exist. You could not, however, find my first church plant because it was a huge failure. I am wondering why he is so popular in the USA, yet hard to trace in Australia. You can find the forge training institute, but it doesn't impress. Again I am more than happy to have my suspicions proven incorrect.
David – no reason to be suspicious. Hirsch is being very helpful to further a needed conversation in the American church–and irregardless of whether you can personally and tangibly validate his ministry — it's no reason to cast doubt upon it for others. Just keep up your great ministry at Westside!
Alan Hirsch will keynote at the LifeServe National Conference in Columbus, OH, Sept 29th – Oct 1, 2010. This event will also feature in-depth learning tracks on equipping and becoming an externally focused church. Check it out at: http://www.lifeserve.group.com/default.group
Alan Hirsch will keynote at the LifeServe National Conference, Columbus, OH, Sept 29 – Oct 1st, 2010. This event will also feature in-depth training tracks on equipping and becoming an externally focused church. Check it out: http://lifeserve.group.com/default.group
"Keep doing attractional. It works for 40%. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. I’m interested in finding the AND!"
I question this statement to my core. But my reason is because I doubt how authentic is the faith of many currently sitting in churches. What is Hirsch's definition of when something "worked"? That they came to your church? Big deal. If people are not becoming like Christ, in the way that Christ wants them to, it doesn't matter whether they are at church every Sunday.
And that's why I think the whole attractional thing is doing anything but "working." I can't find a place in the Gospels where Jesus made attempts to attract people. Can anyone else?
I should write a book about that. Oh wait, I already did! (Just kidding). But check out "Pop Goes the Church" if you want some biblical examples of the attractional methodology.
There are many churches attempting to attract a crowd and failing miserably. Some even causing more damage than good. But there are hundreds of churches who aren't in that category. They are seeing changed and surrendered lives every day, and the community is a different place because of their impact.
It's so easy to discredit something if you haven't personally seen it. But it's happening. All around!
"Keep doing attractional. It works for 40%. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. I’m interested in finding the AND!"
I question this statement to my core. But my reason is because I doubt how authentic is the faith of many currently sitting in churches. What is Hirsch's definition of when something "worked"? That they came to your church? Big deal. If people are not becoming like Christ, in the way that Christ wants them to, it doesn't matter whether they are at church every Sunday.
And that's why I think the whole attractional thing is doing anything but "working." I can't find a place in the Gospels where Jesus made attempts to attract people. Can anyone else?
If only we as churches could do all of the stuff I read on blogs. It seems like we would then have it all wrapped up and everyone would be a Christian.
Sarcasm is my love language…
Once again, Brice, so helpful.
If I cant afford your book right now Tim can you give examples of Jesus attempting to attract a crowd.