I’m confused. Can you help me to understand how a song can be “Christ-centered” if it doesn’t mention Jesus Christ. I didn’t even hear a generic “god” in this song. Could a Mormon, Muslim, New Ager, or even an Atheist sing this song without compromising their beliefs?

By the way, the devil WAS named in this song. I think that’s interesting.

One of my favs… I agree, that’s worship! Randy, do you think God doesn’t know we’re worshiping him if we don’t explicitly mention God/Jesus/Holy Spirit?

I liked the song Tim. I have DecemberRadio’s CD with it on it. I also have no problem with a song being used that doesn’t mention Jesus’ name but can be used to talk about new life in Him.

Using your logic I could be singing “Row Row Row Your Boat” and in your mind I’m singing a children’s song while in my mind I’m singing about the disciples in the boat with Jesus. Granted scripture doesn’t talk about rowing, just sailing and it is a sea instead of a stream – but hopefully you get my point.

A lot of people find new life in Mormonism. How can I know this song isn’t about Joseph Smith? Non-believers and quite possibly other Christians could be confused about to whom you are singing. Isn’t the principle of the modern evangelical church that its all about the seekers? How can a seeker listen to this and know it is about Christ? How can I know that this guy isn’t singing about the Maitreya, Allah, Buddha or the Anti-Christ? There is no way to tell unless he makes it clear in the song, which he doesn’t. If this were a 100 years ago when most of the people in this country had some background in the Christian faith (no I’m not saying they were all Christians, but a majority of the populous had a Judeo-Christian perspective) then maybe we could assume this is about Jesus, but in a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society, we better be careful what we assume.

It wasn’t the song that was Christ-centered…it was the presentation. Some people can walk into nature, and without a word being spoken, without Jesus’ name being mentioned, they are drawn into worshiping the God of creation.

That happens for me through what you just watched. It is a combination of God’s creation (man) using their God-given gifts in such an excellent fashion…along with an awareness of the work of Jesus happening in the hearts of the men and women on stage. It is awe-inspiring!

Tim,

Singing a song about ME and a generic love having a hold on ME is not worship. Same thing with much of today’s preaching that is so dependent on the charm, style, TALENT, personality, performance, hairstyle and wit of a speaker. Has anyone else noticed how much more influence Jerry Seinfeld has in today’s seminaries than John the Baptist?

Thats my take.

You ask, “How can a seeker listen to this and know it is about Christ?” Well, for one thing, this video is but one song out of a whole set of songs sung in worship that particular day. If you look at their set list, the very next song is “Hail to the King” by Hillsong, ending with “Beautiful Jesus”. It’s clear from the context that even if someone *might* question who this song is referring to, they would get a big clue in the following songs. Plus, I have enough faith in my fellow human beings that even if they have no experience/notion of church whatsoever, they at least make a minimal connection that attending a church service=hearing something about a Judeo/Christian deity. Moreover, I have enough confidence in the prevenient grace of God that he’s already been working in their hearts to bring them to that point and make them open to however he will speak to them, whether through this song or something totally different. And that’s something we can’t control or dictate, but simply celebrate!

‘…There’s glory for you!’

`I don’t know what you mean by “glory”,’ Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don’t — till I tell you. I meant “there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!”‘

`But “glory” doesn’t mean “a nice knock-down argument”,’ Alice objected.

`When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

`The question is,’ said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

`The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master — that’s all.’
Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. `They’ve a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they’re the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That’s what I say!’

`Would you tell me please,’ said Alice, `what that means?’

`Now you talk like a reasonable child,’ said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. `I meant by “impenetrability” that we’ve had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you’d mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don’t mean to stop here all the rest of your life.’

`That’s a great deal to make one word mean,’ Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

`When I make a word do a lot of work like that,’ said Humpty Dumpty, `I always pay it extra.’

`Oh!’ said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark.
`Ah, you should see ‘em come round me of a Saturday night,’ Humpty Dumpty went on, wagging his head gravely from side to side, `for to get their wages, you know.’

(Alice didn’t venture to ask what he paid them with; and so you see I ca’n't tell you.)

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

Note: When the terms “worship” and “Christ-Centered” can be re-defined in such a Humpty Dumpty fashion, they lose their meaning altogether.

Claiming that something that doesn’t even mention Christ is still Christ-Centered is absurd and preposterous.

You may as well be speaking gibberish, “The Christ-Centered Blue Sleeps Faster on Wednesdays and Worship was peacefully spongy over the falls.”

What a great song!

And that was a technically perfect execution of “Eruption”!

But, sorry…it’s not worship.

Walk into an Orthodox Church some Sunday and you’ll see what worship is. True, Christ-centered, Spirit-filled, humble, reverent, dignified, exuberant, joyful, worship.

Not man-centered, spiritually impoverished, American Idol-style entertainment.

Quit beating around the bush. Are you saying it didn’t help you worship?

I was careful to say, “For me, this is worship.” For you it evidently doesn’t work.

I have friends who can spend time on a mountain or at a stream and instantly be ushered into a place of worship…in their own soul. That doesn’t work for me. Nature is pretty, and sometimes refreshing, but I’d rather stand at the base of a contemporary skyscraper, or sit at the feet of a killer musician (like in the video). For me–it brings me to a place of worship.

I was entertained–not faced with the awesome might and power of my God. When Peter was faced with the Glory of God, he said to Jesus, “depart from me, for I am a sinful man.” Isaiah said “woe is me, for I am undone.” Job said, “I repent in dust and ashes.”

Tim,

Be encouraged.

I don’t envy your struggles. It must be difficult to do what you do with the obviously like minded staff that you have who are able to put on worship services like this while you’re away and to face the criticisms.

Be encouraged.

It must be difficult to have to combat those who would constantly belittle your efforts, question your practices and undermine your motivation. I don’t envy the hardships you have to go through with just as simple an act of admitting your own worship style and preference. I don’t envy your receiving of the belittling comments above after making yourself vulnerable to scrutiny by admitting something that you are passionate about.

Be encouraged.

I do envy your triumphs. I envy your staff of like minded people who can be caught up in the beauty of music and give glory to God for it. I envy the understanding you share that a song does not have to go through systematic theology to be able to connect us to God. That it doesn’t have to contain the magic word “Jesus” for us to be reverently worshiping him while singing it or hearing it.

Be encouraged.

I envy that are you and your staff are ready and able to bring people to a place of worship through mediums or styles that make ‘the church’ shudder and find ways to fault you. I envy that you and your staff do not demand that those seeking truth, those seeking understanding, those seeking God must first change their likes, passions, music preferences and worldviews before they can then even BEGIN to be exposed to God’s wonder and grace.

Continue fighting the good fight.

Be encouraged.

I would encourage your friends to read Roman 1:25.

Christless Christianity strikes again! Man, this is Romans 1 spirituality clearly displayed. No amount of linguistic gymnastics can redefine what is clearly man-centered tripe.

Ok, this is the most confusing reply that I’ve ever read. Well, honestly I didn’t read the whole thing. Got lost and bored.

Didn’t mind the song. Just didn’t like it very much. But gotta hand it to the guitarist, dang! Listen, “get a grip people!”

Things like this happen when a distorted view of who God is and what He is like develop. We naturally like to make things for us and about our selves when they are reserved for God. Worship or “Worth-ship” is received by God and God alone. He is the only One worthy of worship and He has given us the privilege to engage Him in worship with prayer, praise and thanksgiving. Prayer, because it is a command, praise and thanksgiving because of Who He is and what He has done. A lyric, no matter the subject put to any kind of music that evokes “feelings” or emotion does not constitute worship. Sensory stimulation must be taken out of the equation. He is a God of Spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit. We have to get back to what this is all about and that is Christ Jesus. It’s not about what method pleases us, what styles we desire, what makes us “feel good” for that is what the world is offering us already. We need to remember what worship is Truly about because that is how we are to spend eternity.

P.S. I could not imagine having to listen to Eddie Van Halen and his “Eruption” solo in and for eternity. That would have to be what hell is like. I can think of a thousand other songs that glorify God that aren’t so noisey.

Peace and Grace…

I’m not even going to touch this one.Ha!

I’ve re-read your entry about 10x now and really have no idea what it means. I understand your words, but I’m not sure what they practically mean. Are you saying that music can not be used as a way to usher an individual to a place of worship??

Hey Tim,
A little background on me, I received the Lord Jesus Christ in 2005 at the age of 37 and He’s been my Lord and Savior ever since. I have been a musician as a vocalist, guitar and bass guitar player for 30 years. I have performed in front of large crowds so I know the evocative power that music and lyrics can emote in both the performers and audience. Music and lyrics can and do at times incite riotous behavior or it can also calm the “wild beast” so to speak, (remember Saul and David) and everything in between.

Yes music and song absolutely is a facet of worship and is an awesome way to honor and express our experience of the love of God. Does that mean that we have license to take secular music from the “world” and try to “Christianize” it. I don’t believe so.

As to the comments on “Eruption” being part of the praise music in a meeting of the Body of Christ, it’s more of a commentary on what I believe to be a dilemma in the “organized church”. I believe we have poured our own “post modern” meanings into the words like “worship” or phrases like “place of worship” as you put it, etc. Praise music should never be the sole definition of worship or vice versa and I’m not saying that is your position. I am simply stating that it’s been my observation by experience that a very large portion of the “organized church” when asked what worship and praise means the usual response is something like “oh yea, that’s the music and singing part of a church service”. It is usually the favorite part of a meeting for most people of which attention and precipitation seem to peak in comparison to the other components of a modern “church service”.
Praise music, is just one of many facets of worship. That facet as well as all others must always be grounded and centered in the Lord Jesus, not just in meaning and context but in reverence and revelation. That is the whole point of worship. It’s an acknowledgement to recognize and honor Jesus as God the Almighty. In that He is being revealed to and in us bringing us to a new plane of intimacy with Him.
We seem to take it for some kind of “shot in the arm” for the lifting of our spirits. It’s become something to make us feel better about what ever it is that we are not feeling good about. Although the Body of Christ is edified by worship, it is always Jesus the Head of the Body who it is for and about. It’s the continual revelation of the Son to creation.
My point in all of this is that it is my belief that our modern day though distorted comprehension of what worship is has been instigated by our poor understanding of the teaching of Jesus to worship God in spirit and in truth.

What would Western Christianity do anyway, if all music and song were to be banished from all forms of worship in this country? I know that sounds silly but just for the sake of argument lets’ say that has happened. Would we be any less spiritual? Any less connected? Any less a pupil of Christ? Would we be any further from God, His grace and His Kingdom just because of our inability to express our selves to God musically? I think not.
Besides that, what about places and people in other parts of the globe that don’t have access to a church building with a congregation, a “worship band” a hymnal, or much less a “Christian” radio station, etc. What do they do? What about people that are deaf and can’t hear music or articulate a lyric? Are they not worshippers in the Body?

We seem to have forgotten what Jesus said to the woman at the well in regards to how and where worship will be offered to God from that time on. He said to her “Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation if of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:21-26)

Let’s not make the facet of musical worship more than it is or less than it should be. Anyone can take a secular song and put a Christian stamp on it. I have done it with the blasphemous lyrics of the singer Maynard James Keenan from band Tool but I would never entertain the thought of using it to the praise worship of my God and Savior. I have nothing more to add on this subject. Thank you for your time Tim. May God continue His blessing of Peace and Grace to you and all of yours.

Hi Tim, I’m glad you clarified that for you the performance of this song is worship. Just wondering, though, were they worshipping you? Otherwise, I’m not sure what difference it makes whether or not it was worship for you. Was it worship for God – that’s the key question.

I’m always amazed at how we evaluate the quality of worship based on our personal experience of it. We are neither the object nor the subject of worship.

Grace and Peace to you in the name of Jesus Christ.

Why yes, Alex, they were worshipping me. I’m glad we finally understand each other.

Hi Tim,
Alex made a good point and you summarily dismissed it. Was it worship for God? Who defines worship? You or me? No! It is God who demands how he will be worshiped not our personal taste. He has revealed so in his Word. The Lord takes this very seriously. Just ask Nadab and Abihu.

That being said there is a proper venue for rock/pop/country/southern gospel etc. Its just not during corporate worship.

Hey all – I’m continuing this discussion on a new post: http://is.gd/1yMtV