great stuff Tim… I’m right there with you on this one!

My life mentor, Jim Burns, always said this “the essence of creativity is the ability to copy.” Amen. Also, when you do create, share.

The same Holy Spirit is at work throughout the Church; He is the Innovator. I’m quite willing to use His work even if it appeared somewhere else first.

Here comes the negativity…
When then do you charge for your recycled innovation? And not give it away for free like LifeChurch?
Or can I copy directly your alls work without paying you for it?
Effectiveness and pragmatic arguments are usually code for “the end justifies the means,” I for one just don’t subscribe to that theory. Discipleship yes! Amen. I never want to use resources or lack of resources as an excuse for anything.
(do love you all, just want to get this debate going…)

I agree Tim, I use Photoshop and a lot of things at our disposal but we have almost a zero budget for media, I find that, thematically, I get ideas from larger churches with the budget and people that you speak of…
this isn’t a Coke and Coke Zero infringement thing (LOL)….it’s all about the Kingdom!

Great word man! As a church planter we are the kings of taking something someone else did and tweak it for our setting. I think we all are standing on the shoulders of others!

Great thoughts Tim, and certainly needs to be said. I think it was Chuck Swindoll back in the day who said, “If you’re creative enough, you never have to be original.” The chances that I am – or anyone else is – going to have an original thought is pretty slim. I think innovation in the church mostly means engineering, not inventing.

Now, that’s not to say we shouldn’t think, brainstorm, search, and reach out in creative and inventive ways. I just don’t think we should be surprised or dismayed when what is actually effective turns out to be something that already exists in one form or another.

That’s not negative…it’s a good question.

Nothing is free. It’s just a matter of who pays for it–which comes down to ministry philosophy. LifeChurch spends tens of thousands on making resources available for free to other churches. Very cool. It is part of their vision–and thus, their attenders pay for it. It’s not free. It’s just paid for in advance by those who attend LifeChurch and give their money in the offerings

At Granger, we’ve decided that the free stuff we give away will go to our guests–those in the Granger area who don’t attend church. So we spend tens of thousands of dollars inviting them, creating an amazing experience for them, and following up to help them take spiritual steps. They can come without paying a penny.

We still give away products and information and training to church leaders, but we also charge a nominal fee for some products so that the ministry pays for itself.

Tim,

You make some good points, but I think you are missing the point from the statement “churches and Christians should be about creating culture and not copying it.” “Culture” in this statement is much bigger than just a promo idea or a postcard design.

The problem is that the Church has been notorious at taking what the mainstream popular culture is doing, and just “christianizing” it. Think CCM music, retro Christian t-shirts, Christian films, etc. This then creates a separation between “secular” and “christian” culture, which I believe is an incorrect view of God’s creation.

Tim, check out Andy Crouch and his work, “culture making.” This may give you a much larger vision of culture.

http://www.culture-making.com/

Phil – good point. I agree totally–the retro Christian T-shirts make me want to scream.

Andy Crouch has great stuff. I encourage everyone to check it out.

From a business leader to church leader, AMEN, Tim! There is no need to re-invent the wheel. Companies aren’t original. Why should churches be ‘original’? Take what is already working and make the model better, or simplify the model (Dell, for instance). The acronym SWIPE is in my vocabulary. Steal With Integrity Practically Everything. Churches should adore being modeled knowing that what they are doing is reaching more people for Christ, the ultimate goal!

You nailed it with this – “Why have we made original the ultimate achievement? Shouldn’t our goal be effectiveness?”

Thanks for the answer. Agree on the free. It is a matter of when it gets paid. My but statement would be then to never charge though for what you had already “swiped.”

I think Phil Mollenkof below did a good job of summing up my feelings on most of this. I had basically his take on it, which may just be a different take then how you and some of the others here took. (lots of takes and tooks)

I would say though to what seems like the vibe of most of the others that great companies are original. Not swipers. Swiper no swiping, Swiper no swiping…excuse me too much Dora.

Thanks for this post. I live by this attitude. Someone once said, “Creative genius is knowing how to hid your resources.” I’ve never had an original thought. I’m just adept at pasting together 100′s of other’s thoughts into an original whole, then delivering it each Sunday. My small staff is able to take those thoughts and run with them to make them work as a pretty good product, even if it’s totally ripped off.

Great stuff Tim! Being the “lead” creator at a smaller church, I am constantly searching out new ideas from other churches. At this point in our ministry, we cannot afford a full-time creative guy that only sits and creates, so I have to split my time up between different hats. Sometimes we copy a series or artwork… most times we take what we can and make it fit us. It is all about the Kingdom… Cannot wait to see you and GCC in a couple weeks at your workshops!

Interesting post. I am a reactionary in some ways meaning that I am always finding ways to bring things back to the middle. You are right when you say its not wrong to use things that have been used before. I don’t think that we are missing that in the north american church today, we see plenty of that (and most of it is poor quality).
I am a firm believer that each church needs to contextualize what they are doing to their specific area and community. What works in one part of the country may not work somewhere else. That is why we need church leaders to pray and think and create something that is from God for their people. I agree God CAN use others ideas and concepts as well but I don’t know that this is always best. God created his church in such a way that they can come up with some pretty neat and biblical ideas AND it will mean more because it is personal and not borrowed.
So I don’t think I am necessarily disagreeing with you, its fine to borrow things, just know that we are doing good at that already in the church. We should be encouraging people to do the hard work of creating by digging into the creative persons the Creator has put at a specific church to reach a specific people.
Hopefully I didn’t totally go off topic here, thanks for reading my thoughts.

I think the main point is not where we create FROM. There is truly nothing new under the sun, and to claim that anything is “my idea” is simply a lie.

I am far more concerned with the expectations we place on our own churches after coming home from a conference, or after purchasing the latest ministry “kit”, or after adapting a great worship idea, or teaching series, etc. That, in my opinion, is where we get into trouble. We honestly believe that, f we just “do” what Saddleback, or Willow, or Granger does, then we’ll experience the results they experienced. There is nothing more more devoid of true hope than placing expectations like that on our own church – on our own people.

I completely agree with Tim when he says to “lighten up”. He’s in a big church, but standing against the artistic and creative pressures that big churches place on the rest of us. I really appreciate that stance.

Why can’t someone re-invent the wheel? It’s a good thing someone did re-invent the wheel because the first one was square.

I think the whole point about this is that some churches think the word of God needs something else to make it fresh and understandable and exciting. Sorry boys, the word needs nothing and stands alone with the H.S. opening peoples hearts to it.

I think you’re thinking in shallow, religious, idealistic terms.

Imagine if Apple used “recycled” concepts in product development and marketing. Apple pays A LOT of money to create the brand they have. The church, I don’t care how big can never approach them in this arena.

If we are talking about marketing or art, I highly disagree with you. Churches should be developing their own art. This includes avoiding stock photography.

But I think we could arrive at the same place in our thinking, just by walking different paths.

I think loving people, and being Christ to people, standing up for injustice, taking care of the poor, etc. Those are things are extremely innovative, always relevant and always life-giving.

Dude if you try to compete with the Apples of the world, you will fall on your face everytime. At the end of the day, a website, a service, a video needs to be reflective of the community it strives to reach.

I attend and am highly involved with Mosaic here in LA. People are looking to us because we are “innovative”. To the extent that we are innovative, is the extent we use the creative giftings of the people in our community.

I would say be true to who you are. Don’t use gimmicks cheap advertising, cheesy programming to portray your selves as something your not.

If your church is full of innovators and creatives. Utilize their giftings and talents. If you’re church is full of computer programmers or soccer mom’s do the same thing. Evey church should look and act different.

The ethos or DNA of your church should be reflective of those people who attend, not reflective of what other churches are doing. I cannot express this enough.

I must not be too shallow, because I agree with virtually everything you said.

It’s not “either/or” — it is “both/and”.

The question we ask constantly: Will this element help people take their next step toward Jesus? If the answer is “yes” — we don’t care where it came from. Stock photography…who cares? Video from YouTube…so? Original creation that took 100 hours of editing…great. Doesn’t matter to me. If it helped people get closer to Jesus, that’s what matters.

Creating is re-creating.

If its true that there is nothing new under the sun then re-creating is really the only option…

Good thoughts, thanks Tim.

You are so right. Shouldn’t our goal be effectiveness? we need to reach the people in our communities and bring them to the saving knowledge of Jesus. What does it matter who’s idea it is. Thanks Pastor Tim

Great post Tim. Small churches especially should take what you say to heart. It’s all about being effective.

From Dictionary.com…
Innovative: adjective. “being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before.”

Maybe innovative is not the right term to use here. I’m all for churches using ideas that have been used before… in fact, I encourage it – if it’s appropriate and effective for the community that you’re trying to reach.

I once heard it said…”the art of creativity is the ability to copy.” I love this statement because it’s so true… there is nothing new under the sun – everything comes from something.

As I’m typing this, I’m thinking… Maybe the innovation we’re talking about is seen through a smaller lens. Meaning.. it’s innovative if it hasn’t been done at YOUR church before – even though it may have been done somewhere else…? I suppose that’s a plausible way to look at it.

I still have a hard time with copying themes pop-culture and calling it innovation. In my opinion, that’s duplication.

It’s late, my thoughts are jumbled… but I appreciate the debate going on here!

Well said Tim! Great post!

My metric is effectiveness in ministry… some of the most effective tools are ones we’ve picked up from others. Every once in a while we create something original or innovative… and hope others can use it too!

I also think it’s important to mention the legality issues that come with copying artwork from themes in popular culture.

I have a difficult time understanding how some churches can clearly copy artwork from a popular tv show or movie and not address the legal issues associated with copying it. Unless, of course, they have asked for permission… which is great if they do!

If a church uses copyrighted artwork and they haven’t asked for permission or gone through the appropriate legal channels to use it… there is a slight lack of integrity, in my humble opinion.

Wouldn’t you guys agree?

Hello Tim,

Here’s the deal for me. I’m a church planter, we’re in the middle of constucting our 1st building, my wife is the principal of our christian school, I serve as the youth pastor for 100 kids, my wife leads worship, the church is strapped financially, in 2008 we planted a church off ours, I lead a church planting network, and my wife is due with our 6th child. Our staff…a sec/treas and volunteers. So the answer to the question do we create all of our own stuff is NO! When would you have time. Have we created our own stuff absolutely….but we borrow ideas when we can and pay for some stuff that we really like. Oh by the way we’re going to baptize 10 people this week. It’s all about the KINGDOM of GOD!

Eggsellent post! I’m glad somebody said it.

–Terrace Crawford
http://www.terracecrawford.com
http://www.twitter.com/terracecrawford

Why is so much time spent on inovation? Where do you people come from? What about taking a passage of scripture and studying it to see what the Holy Spirit is teaching you and then teaching it to your congregation? Why has that gone out of style? Because it’s not fun? Or it’s not cool? Or it doesn’t get butts in your seats dudes? What is it man?

Butts in seats is a pretty cool thing. More people to hear the life-changing word of God.

Tom, you are correct in re-inventing the first wheel. That is continuous improvement. My point on re-inventing the wheel is to repeat what works and make it better. The first wheel, despite being square, worked. Therefore, the round wheel wasn’t necessarily ‘original’, but rather an improvement. In any event, I agree with your point that the Word stands alone. You just may need improved methods to get that word to more people. It is the process that needs improvement, not the product!

Let’s not kid ourselves Tim. We know the real reason why butts in the seats is a pretty cool thing.

John, my only concern when people try to improve the process is that too often the product IS changed. It is either watered down, made less offensive, or less convicting. We say it too many times, “We’re not changing the message, we’re just re-packaging it,” or something to that affect. But the product still gets changed and that is a serious offense according to the Word with serious consequences. Somebody will pay the piper someday. I was caught up in that myself and I’m glad I’m out of that fad driven movement.

Hi Tim, I just love you guys! Unashamedly I look at the stuff you guys do and we innovate on it ourselves – we just used an idea from you for our last Christmas – we had Christmas with Queen – “Its a kind of magic!”

The two Sundays went off the richter scale with success – we think that originality is important but innovation is essential. This generation must hear the timeless message but in a timely meathod.

Your church along with others like Hillsong in Sydney and London remain some of the great churches we look to as benchmarks of success in the kingdom.

I look and with a less than bashful spirit use the stuff you guys produce. We love your spirit and love your willingness to be transparent and vulnerable in an online world.

Thanks – in a recent tweet from Ed Stetzer he encouraged us to go ahead and steal his stuff – he is one of the guys we steal from no doubt!

Thanks for allowing even endorsing this – thank man! Love you all and love what you’re doing there at Granger.

Tom Rawls
http://www.proclaimers.com
http://www.tomrawls.com

Good stuff Tim. Just came back from the C3 Creative Church Conference at Fellowship Church in Grapevine, TX last week. Ed Young, who gets credit for being one of the most creative pastors out there, repeated one of his regular statements multiple times at the conference: “You got eyes. Plagerize.”

Great attitude. Plagerize. We should teach that to our kids…

on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ed Young says so, so it’s ok. ???????????????

I totally get the “fake it till you make it” concept. All artists do it at some point. Bono and the Edge had to learn the Beatles’ and the Ramones’ songs before they could write The Joshua Tree Album… Right?

I personally can testify that when I have attempted to blatantly clone a work or concept too closely to the original–without adding, or mashing up some other element to it (original or not)–I find the cloned work is usually not as powerful as the original. I know that’s a relative term, and maybe it’s all a matter of opinion, but when I try to directly copy one of my favorite artists out there, my copy is never quite as good.

However, I usually get better results when I take elements of art, ideas, or techniques from a broader palette of inspiration (I try not to rely on NBC’s Fall lineup as my only source of inspiration : )

To the bi-vocational or volunteer church worker with low budget and low resources, I say:
1. Use what you can, BUT…
2. CREDIT the source as often and as generously as possible! (Yes, it matters! Giving credit to the original artist might lead to more work for that artist).
3. and finally, budget some time and energy to broaden your palette of inspiration. Go check out an art exhibition you wouldn’t normally attend. Buy an album from a genre of music you don’t usually listen to. Do a google search for “design firm” and check out what brand gurus are doing for other industries.

To the full-time artist, I say:
1. Broaden your palette of inspiration! That’s your job!
2. If you really have to directly copy another artists work, do so within the law–i.e. pay for licensed music. (check out chapter 11 in Tim Steven’s book “Pop Goes The Church”). : )
3. and finally; BROADEN YOUR PALETTE OF INSPIRATION! Did I already mention that? : ) Yup… it’s important. The point is: It’s the information age! If you’re a full time artist, you have very little excuse for a narrow palette of inspiration.

That’s my 2 bits.
Thanks for the thought provoker, Tim!!!

Cody Baker